146 thoughts on “Original West Africans Of Ancient Greece!!! The Black (First) Europeans III”

1. Dave and The Jimmy

   Your responses demonstrate that you guys are barely literate.

   Arnaiz’s study has been validated several times over contrary to the deliberate misinformation and lies peddled by hate motivated racist sponsored Racial Reality and Dieneke’s web site.

   You have been duped by bad men! Misled by very bad liars!

   Go figure:

   http://onedroprule.org/about1335.html

   Jahdey

2. Jahdey, it goes to without reason that you would believe the misinformation that you find in any dubious on line sites and then try to perpetrate a myth that has been proven to be nothing but fallacies by many unbiased sources who work in the field of genetics. Arnaiz’s study has been discredited by legit scientists all over the world time and again. That piece of misinformation that you posted is nothing but lies based on once again Arnaiz’s study. First off that is based on the dubious research work of Arnaiz’s study as they used the same SINGLE genetic marker HLA-DRB1 that Arnaiz-Villena used to come to the same fallacy of a conclusion and as it was pointed out by geneticists, Luca Cavalli-Sforza, Alberto Piazza and Neil Risch, who have argued successfully that the scientific limitations of using a SINGLE genetic marker, HLA-DRB1 methodology, that the Tunesians and Arnaiz used and I quote “Even a cursory look at the papers diagrams and trees immediately indicates that the authors make some extraordinary claims. They used a single genetic marker, HLA-DRB1, for their analysis to construct a genealogical tree and map of 28 populations from Europe, the Middle East, Africa and Japan. Using results from the analysis of a single marker particularly one likely to have undergone selection for the purpose of reconstructing genealogies is unreliable and unacceptable practice in population genetics.” End quote. Also there is no historic or archeological evidence of any supposed displacement of Egyptian-Ethiopic people, during the Pharaonic period in the Greek region as the dubious papers claim. So stating it as a supposed ‘fact’ when in reality it is nothing but fallacies with no evidence to back up their theories, questions the neutral point that certain individuals have on this issue. As it is correctly stated by unbiased sources who have conducted many test on the subject matter using not only the same SINGLE genetic marker but multiple-marker analysis, they have yet to ever duplicated Arnaiz-Villena’s and the Tunisian research which raises questions about the HLA-DRB1 methodology results. For example, Ayub 2003 used 182 loci (as opposed to Villena’s and the Tunisians ones) to group several world populations based on genetic distances. Their results reveal Greeks’ both ancient and modern distance far from Africans, and have closeness to other CACAUSIAN Europeans. If you want to find men who have been misled and duped everyone, just look in your mirror.

3. Dave

   The wise say thet ignorance is a killer. HLA-DRB1 or any HLA for that matter is a gene-based protein that can be used to deduce population movement.

   Arnzia is a master molecular geneticist of the highest ranking and an authority in genetical analysis. His works stand the test of time.

   Arnzia’s genetical study of the Greek genes is still valid and has been corroborated by the identification of other genetic connections.

   From a molecular genetic perspective, Y Haplogroups E3B, DE, A, PN2, K2, have been identified in Greeks. These haplogroups are related directly to African Y haplogroups. E3B is from East Africa, DE* is suspected to arise from Nigeria, K2 is East African and can be found all along the coast of East Africa.

   In addition, clinical analysis have also confirmed the presence of the following African specific genes in modern Greeks: Hemoglobin Haplotype 19, Beta Thalassemia genes, Alpha Thalassemia genes.

   Nordic Europeans like yourself do not present these genes as frequently as they are encountered in the Greek Islands and mainland.

   You must rid your mind of your foolish and baseless aversion for simple everyday truth.

   Go and read this article here for better elucidation:

   http://onedroprule.org/about1335.html

   Jahdey

4. Jahdey, ignorance seems to be the only thing you are familiar with given your statements on this subject matter. You are also wrong in regards to what molecular genetic Y Haplogroups are found in Greeks. For one the Y Haplogroups found in Greeks are that of Caucasian genes, not of Sub-Saharan black Africans, as you so falsely stated:

   Haplogroup DE is found in very small % in male populations of Nigeria which proves to be that of a much LATER MUTATION introduced INTO that African regions’ population not from as you falsely state. The DE haplogroup appeared approximately 50,000 years bp in Arabia and subsequently split into haplogroup E that spread to Europe and Africa and haplogroup D represents a great coastal migration along southern Asia, from Arabia to Southeast Asia.

   As far as E3B goes, this Hg can be found through out most of Europe and it is best that one states clearly which sub-group of the E3B (E-M78a – which is not found in black africans but it is found in lower frequencies outside the Balkans and marks migrations from the Balkan areas not into it) is found in Caucasian Europeans like the Greeks. BTW, E-M78a that Greeks and other Europeans share chromosomes belong to cluster α, denoting gene flow from mainland Europe. The alpha cluster is a mutation that arose in the Balkan peninsula of Europe from an earlier marker with a Near Eastern origin, according to Cruciani et al. 2004 :

   “Although E-M78β and E-M78γ show only modest levels of gene flow (from northern Africa to Europe and from eastern to northern Africa, respectively), the clinal frequency distribution of E-M78α within Europe testifies to important dispersal(s), most likely Neolithic or post-Neolithic. These took place from the Balkans, where the highest frequencies are observed, in all directions, as far as Iberia to the west and, most likely, also to Turkey to the southeast. Thus, it appears that, in Europe, the overall frequency pattern of the haplogroup E-M78a, the most frequent E3b haplogroup in this region, is mostly contributed by a new molecular type that distinguishes it from the aboriginal E3b chromosomes from the Near East. These data are hard to reconcile with the hypothesis of a uniform spread of a single Near Eastern gene pool into southeastern Europe”. – Am J Hum Genet. 2004 May; 74(5): 1014–1022. Published online 2004 March 24.

   “Outside of East Africa, its two most prevalent clades are E-M81 (referred to as the “Berber marker”), which reaches frequencies of up to 80% in North Africa, and E-M78α, which has its highest frequencies in southeastern Europe (up to 30%) but is found throughout the continent, marking a recent expansion from the Balkan Peninsula.” –

   The East African connection is as distant as that of E-M81. And indeed, E-M78α that Europeans belong to is not found at all in the Horn of Africa.

   As it was stated before using a SINGLE genetic marker, in this case the DRB1, as Arnaiz & the Tunisians did in basically the same study is unreliable and dubious. Also Arnazia research was funded by such biased mongrels as Soros and the nation of FYROMia, hardly credible or unbiased by anyone’s standards. Also that Tunisian fallacy that you posted did not analyze any Greek genetic material, nor did any unbiased laboratory contribute to their research. Their results were taken straight from those of Arnaiz-Villena and thus they repeated the same false conclusions that Aranzia concluded. In other words, they just used Arnazia’s dubious research work; they did not contribute nor verify anything new to the said study. Arnzia’s genetical study of the Greek genes is not valid at all and has been disproved by credible geneticists from around the world.

   All haplogroups are related too and through evolution different Hg are created. It took 10,000 years for E3b to split off from e3a. Similar to the creation of a new species –with the exception that humans are the same species and haven’t diverged to the point that we can’t interbreed and produce viable offspring. The first humans started out as one interbreeding population(with the same features, genotype, etc.), then there became a barrier to gene flow (East Africans vs. Sub-Saharan Africans), this barrier caused differientation because of different selective pressures in phenotype and genotype (East Africans i.e. “elongated” features associated with caucasoids, but retaining pigmented (melanin, a natural sunblock) skin because they live in Africa. When the proto-Eurasians left East Africa, some went to Europe others to Asia. They continued to differentiate and evolve to the environments where they settled. In Europe, this differentiation wasn’t as much because the first Paleolithic Europeans couldn’t go very far into Europe since it was covered with ice(read about Last Glacial Maximum, not adapted for that environment) during the last Ice Age, this caused them to be restricted to refugia of Southern Europe in Iberia, Italy, Greece, Anatolia, etc. and only expanded to the rest of Europe after the Last Glacial Maximum –which is why Europeans like English, Greeks, Italians, Serbs, Albanians, etc. are very closely genetically related; migration to other regions was not possible and they’ve been living together for a long time; they have only in relatively recent in human history been a separate populations. To try and claim southern Europeans , i.e Greeks, Italians, Spanish, French, etc. as “Africans” NOW because e3b came out of Africa, is a slippery slope to genetic evolution and goes against all scientific logic. Everybody came out of Africa. There are significant and distinct stages in phenotype and genotype that lead to the different founding populations of the world since people left Africa. Ancient and modern Greeks are genetically further apart from black Africans as most other Europeans are.

   Afrocentric like yourself do not present any of the genes found in either ancient or modern Greeks. I suggest stop trying to turn the whole world history and civilizations into something that its not, i.e. African black.

5. Finally the mere fact that you are trying to attribute such a heterogeneity disease as sickle cell as “ones place of ancestral origins” is astonishing. Sickle cell is contributed to malaria not some phantom African ancestry link as you so falsely stated. Misinformed statements like that reminds me of how not so long ago some would wrongly claim people who had sarcoidosis were of “African” origins at one time when in reality sarcoidosis occurs throughout the world in all races just as blood disorders. FWIIW: Sarcoidosis is most prevalent in Northern European countries. Also please learn the difference between blood disorders. Generally thalassemias are prevalent in populations that evolved in humid climates where malaria was endemic and it affects all races. Thalassemias are particularly associated with people of Mediterranean origin, Middle Easterners and Asians. A very low prevalence of Thalassemias has been reported from people of African origins (0.9%) and that is with those in northern Africa having the highest prevalence. Thalassemia was first discovered in people living around the Mediterranean Sea, they have persisted in such populations and geographical regions because having a copy of either gene protects against malaria.

   “OVER THE GENERATIONS, THE SICKLE CELL TRAIT HAS THEREFORE REACHED HIGH FREQUENCIES IN MALARIOUS AREAS. THE FACTOR IN COMMON TO THE DISTRIBUTION OF THE SICKLE CELL GENE IS THEREFORE MALARIA AND NOT AFRICAN ANCESTRY.”

   Malarious areas, the origins of sickel cell, are the result of war, famine, etc. The highest contribution of sickel cell is found in NORTHERN GREECE, and the countries that surround that region(Albania, Bulgaria, North West Turkey & FYRoM) because of the wars that ravaged that reason since the early 1900s until the end of the Greek civil war in the 1950s. Sickel cell is virtually not found in Southern Greeks.

   “The prominent American geneticist James V. Neel was at first perplexed by the fact that beta thalassemia occurs with such a high frequency since the homozygous form of the condition, thalassemia major, is very serious and generally leads to premature death. He initially suspected a high rate of mutation. Eventually, however, Neel realized that the heterozygous form of beta thalassemia, as well as the sickle-cell disease that also consumed his early studies, provided individuals with resistance to malaria, thus making its preponderance in the human population understandable. Neel’s reasoning also helps explain why prevalence of beta thalassemia is greatest in people of Mediterranean, Middle Eastern, and south Asian heritage, since these parts of the world were historically beset with malaria.” – HUMAN PATHOLOGY

   Beta & Alpha Thalassemia genes: not a genetic “African” link as some falsely claim: “The reason that the gene for beta thalassemia is found, for example, among people of Italian and Greek origin is that parts of Italy and Greece were once full of malaria. The presence of thalassemia minor (like sickle cell trait in Africa) afforded protection against malaria, and therefore, this gene thrived.” – Harrison’s Principles of Internal Medicine, McGraw-Hill, edited by Eugene Braunwald, et. al., 2001

   “The high prevalence of thalassemias in malaria-infested regions led Haldane (1949) to propose that hetrozygotes for these lethal diseases have a selective advantage (Clegg and Weatherall 1999). [beta]-thalassemia, resulting from deficient production of the [beta]-globin chain. To date, over 180 different mutations leading to [beta]-thalassemia have been characterized around the world. The mutations show a characteristic GEOGRAPHIC distribution: for example, in the Mediterranean region, over 50 [beta]-thalassemia mutations have been characterized, among which two are clearly preponderant. IVS-I-110 (G[arrow right]A) is observed at high frequencies in the eastern part of the Mediterranean, whereas the mutation at codon 39 (C[arrow right]T) is very frequent in western Mediterranean countries. In Lebanon, IVS-I-110 represents 40% of thalassemia mutations, while stop codon 39 (Cd39) is quite rare (0.8%) and has been identified in only a few individuals so far (Table 1).” – Human Biology, Dec 2002 by Zahed, Laila, Demont, Jocelyne, Bouhass, Rachid, Trabuchet, Guy, Et al

   “Population Genetics of the Turkish People. World data indicate that in regions where malaria and beta-thalassemia are less common a variety of beta-thalassemia mutations is found, whereas in regions with long histories of exposure to malaria only a small number of alleles account for most of the beta-thalassemia genes (Huisman et al. 1997). The geographical distribution of beta-thalassemia mutations in different regions of Turkey reflects a decreasing gradient of mutation numbers when moving from East to West Anatolia (Tadmouri et al. 1998a) (Figure 1). East Anatolia is a rugged region not conducive to the proper development of the malarial parasite. In contrast, the landscape of Thrace and West Anatolia is simpler and more suitable for the development and transmission of malaria. Interestingly, this mutation/malaria gradient can also be mirrored by the results of surveys conducted in Turkey between 1980 and 1995 that noted a regional beta-thalassemia trait frequency gradient increasing from East (3.4%) to West Anatolia and Thrace (11%).” – (Kocak et al. 1995; Aksoy et al. 1980; Aksoy et al. 1985; Kurkqiioglu et al. 1986; Bircan et al. 1993).

6. Devile

   Spamming will not help you out. If you do not realize that Sickle cell is a genetically borne condition and that the haplotypes of the genes identify their geographic origin then you are not qualified to discuss with your betters. You are novice embarrasing yourself and seeking attention.

   Anything genetic is blood borne. HBS haplogroup 19 found in Greeks is from Africa. Do you want citations? Real Greeks will never deny that. Some turkmen, or some serbs or some wannabe Northwestern Euro like you can come posture but it is all empty.

   I doubt that you understand the implications of your posts but thanks for helping me make my case. Do you not see for yourself how many times Africa is invoked in those research? Can you read at all?

   When you start reading more widely and applying interpretative faculties like humans should then you will figure out the teachings which escape you presently.

   Africans lived and ruled in Greece. Athens was founded by the Egyptian King Sensworst. Egyptians and Sudanese colonized Greek until the rise of the Persians. We left genes therein.

   Black Africans not only colonized and ruled the Greeks, we taught the Greeks the entirety of all they knew. Because until the Greeks entered Egypt following their conquest of Persia, Greece was a backwater section of the world.

   The entire Hellenic culture is Egyptian culture plagiarized by the Greeks!

   Jahdey

7. What lies you keep posting, Jahdey. Its very comical that there are people like you out there who believe the garbage ideology you keep yapping about. Real Greeks never claimed being Africans, in fact real Greeks both in ancient and modern times very clearly state they are of European Caucasian origins both in their writings, statues and artifacts. Only Afrocentric who are envious of Greek civilization try to turn Greeks into something that they are not. Black Africans didn’t teach anything to Greeks nor did black Africans ever colonize Greece as you so falsely like to claim given no historical records or evidence has ever been discovered of this except in the wishful minds of Afrocentric. There is no black African genetic link found between you black Africans and white Greeks either in modern times or ancient. Stop living in a delusional bubble of misconceptions and lies. HBS haplogroup 19 is not found in any Greeks, in fact Greeks who carry the thalassaemia don’t carry any of the genetic Haplogroups found in black Africans, which blows your false theory of some phantom “black genetic African” origins of people with thalassaemia to bits. Its pretty comical hearing you try to turn a whole population that not once showed any physical or genetic signs of being black Africans, in fact if we study both ancient and modern Greeks they very clearly show the physical types of White Caucasian not black Africans, are trying to turn them into ‘black’. So what happened to your phantom ‘black Greeks’? Why to ancient Greeks call black Africans “Ethiopians” = Greek for ‘burned faces’ but themselves “European Hellenes” = Caucasians. Nope the Greeks never called themselves as ‘“Ethiopians” =burned or black’ like they did with black Africans based on physical looks. What happened? Did they get rid off all the ‘black Greeks’? LOL!! I’ve been to Greece, all the blacks that I have seen in that country I can count on one hand and most of those are of foreign extraction. What a bunch of crock.

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